I think that -- where possible -- the "haters" have to be confronted.
1. Denial of the atrocities should be answered by "See the filming that HAMAS made"
2. Claims of "misconduct" by Israel should be answered by "How DOES any country respond to an attack of 07 October? Further, HAMAS has stated explicitly that they intend to REPEAT the attack of 07 October. Should HAMAS be allowed to rebuild itself to do that?
3. Attacks on AIPAC should be answered very simply: "You are not interested in any facts -- listening to AIPAC just MIGHT change your mind -- which you are not prepared to do"
These are straightforward statements and can serve as a basis.
THEN the facts about "malnutrition", "aid", etc. can serve as a follow-up.
Those are all valid responses to the haters. But Jed is right. The negative narrative is too entrenched into the American psyche right now. Not sure how to change that. Even with these new facts listed by Phillips now in hand.
Melanie Phillips plays to a small audience of increasingly furious social conservatives, hardline Land-Uber-Alles religious Zionists, and committed haters of Islam. Some of her points are valid (don’t ask me which ones; I surely don’t know), but her reactionary zealotry assures that only her fans will bother listening to her. If the idea here is to persuade ordinary people — including a growing number of ordinary Jews — to see the events in Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank from the Israeli government’s perspective, then Ms. Phillips is the last person you’d want to pick to send the message, other, perhaps, than Ben Gvir and Smotrich.
I had hoped that in time, the Israeli government would provide the public solid facts which, if mixed in with the reportage from most of the worldwide media and eyewitness observers, would begin to approximate all that has happened since October 7th. But no. There are nasty, ultra-partisan elections approaching in both Israel and the United States. Instead of the admixture of fact that leads to truth, we’re getting nothing but polarized propaganda and nonstop polemics from both sides of the Israel-Arab question, all without nuance, subtlety, or simple common sense.
The thing is, Israel’s hasbara, and that of its most vocal right-wing supporters in the U.S. and elsewhere, have been lousy from the start. (E.g., pointing to a divisive character like Melanie Phillips as spokesperson.) Right now far more folks are skeptical of Israel than at any time before. And it will get worse before it gets better.
That’s because Zionists as a people tend to be so darn sure of ourselves and our holy righteousness that we can’t see things the way other people do. We don’t give an inch, no matter how much Israel’s leaders screw things up to a fare the well. For this, we are paying dearly, and will pay much more in the future.
Obviously, I totally disagree with your perspective. Although Melanie Phillips is not your typical mainstream media journalist whose view skew to the left, she is nevertheless a highly respected journalist among her colleagues.
The JNS article that is the subject of this post was filled with fact that totally up end the narrative of the left and their mainstream media cheerleaders. Unless you can counter her points I don’t see how you can characterize her as catering to a small group of extremist right wingers. The facts she references speak for themselves.
True -- it is "entrenched". But perhaps confronting the Politicians (when they can not run away) might be a start.
Challenge them to a real debate -- not one where they can shout down the "opposition". Make sure that the debate is public so people can SEE the "stupidity" and "ignorance" of these people -- many of whom may have never been in Israel...
The implication may or may not be correct. But I’m certainly not in any position to advise others on whether or not to make Aliyah now. Who am I to tell others what to do?
I think that based upon your observations and understanding or the situation, you could be very well "qualified". If there is nothing to be done (as you feel) AND the Leftist [antisemitic] Democrats are in a position (if they win) to gut the protections for Jews... then it means that the era of "Malchus Shel Chesed" is over... and THAT would imply -- "move now and avoid the rush"...
Everyone has valid points and I agree. However, on the left, the Muslim world and the crazy conservatives are not interested in the facts. We can talk facts all day long and I do not think the narrative will change. There is a climate of anti-israel and anti-Semitism running rampant in the world. It is just like Charlie Kirk. The conspiracy theories and the demonization of him are the same. None of it is based on fact, just hatred for a normal guy who was willing to engage people, married the pretty girl, and has kids.
Do not let facts get in the way of our "demented" narrative.
I agree that Israel has to put forward its best and go into the lions' den. I would hire the Fox News team to find and train articulate, pretty Fox News-type anchors; we could sprinkle in some good-looking men.
J. B Pritzker Yemachmo is a chamor, so we shouldn't be surprised that this self-hater would reject contributions from AIPAC. May Hashem drive this Rasha out of the Governor's office in the fall!
1.there is no turning back. The narrative has been established and is set in stone. The USA and the world is turning more increasingly anti Israel and subsequently more overtly Jew hating as each day passes.
Sadly many of our own people are turning against Israel as well on the left and the right. Truth has become irrelevant in regard to Israel in particular and to other societal issues as well. It is the nature of the times we are living in.
2.we’re supposed to love our fellow Jews as part of “one soul”,as we love ourselves. I’m truly uncertain how to do that with our brothers and sisters who have turned against Israel.
This problem is a dilemma both halachically and hashkafically.
3.throughout this ongoing war,i have not heard one person articulate a better way to have responded to the horrific attack of 10/7. Critics are aplenty while alternative solutions are nonexistent.
4.while Bibi is not to blame for hatred just waiting to emerge his style and substance in so many ways doesn’t help.
Israel needs new and creative leadership and a new voice. Both external and internal problems require desperate answers. Bibi has contributed for many years to our divisiveness.
5.we desperately need outspoken and capable rabbinic leadership on the level of Rav Lichtenstein z’l to provide moral guidance that is focused,compassionate and open to all our people.
Agree with all your points. But I’m not sure that Bibi’s style and substance have any objective relevance to this hatred. I just think he’s an easy target for the haters which are mostly on the left - ever since his rejection of Obama‘s nuclear deal with Iran. Which has Increased by his positive relationship with the president.
The president is a less intellectually capable person than Bibi and the nature of his extreme character flaws and his dialogue have not helped either,despite some good things he’s done for Israel. His lack of sophistication and “Prost” manner are not a good thing for the world,the USA or Israel.
Saying things like”Israel wouldn’t exist without me” is not only nutty but is a slap in the face for any of us who have emunah in Hashem.
Bibi is a smarter version of Trump who doesn’t ignite the Jew hatred but he throws wood on the fire through divisive actions-eg alignment with Ben Gvir and Smotrich and permitting extremist settlers to act out.
Agree with that too. But I wouldn’t say that he is aligned with Ben-Gvir. He just used him to assure he could create a coalition government. Bibi is not a RW extremist. Ben-Gvir is.
I think that -- where possible -- the "haters" have to be confronted.
1. Denial of the atrocities should be answered by "See the filming that HAMAS made"
2. Claims of "misconduct" by Israel should be answered by "How DOES any country respond to an attack of 07 October? Further, HAMAS has stated explicitly that they intend to REPEAT the attack of 07 October. Should HAMAS be allowed to rebuild itself to do that?
3. Attacks on AIPAC should be answered very simply: "You are not interested in any facts -- listening to AIPAC just MIGHT change your mind -- which you are not prepared to do"
These are straightforward statements and can serve as a basis.
THEN the facts about "malnutrition", "aid", etc. can serve as a follow-up.
Those are all valid responses to the haters. But Jed is right. The negative narrative is too entrenched into the American psyche right now. Not sure how to change that. Even with these new facts listed by Phillips now in hand.
Melanie Phillips plays to a small audience of increasingly furious social conservatives, hardline Land-Uber-Alles religious Zionists, and committed haters of Islam. Some of her points are valid (don’t ask me which ones; I surely don’t know), but her reactionary zealotry assures that only her fans will bother listening to her. If the idea here is to persuade ordinary people — including a growing number of ordinary Jews — to see the events in Gaza, Lebanon, and the West Bank from the Israeli government’s perspective, then Ms. Phillips is the last person you’d want to pick to send the message, other, perhaps, than Ben Gvir and Smotrich.
I had hoped that in time, the Israeli government would provide the public solid facts which, if mixed in with the reportage from most of the worldwide media and eyewitness observers, would begin to approximate all that has happened since October 7th. But no. There are nasty, ultra-partisan elections approaching in both Israel and the United States. Instead of the admixture of fact that leads to truth, we’re getting nothing but polarized propaganda and nonstop polemics from both sides of the Israel-Arab question, all without nuance, subtlety, or simple common sense.
The thing is, Israel’s hasbara, and that of its most vocal right-wing supporters in the U.S. and elsewhere, have been lousy from the start. (E.g., pointing to a divisive character like Melanie Phillips as spokesperson.) Right now far more folks are skeptical of Israel than at any time before. And it will get worse before it gets better.
That’s because Zionists as a people tend to be so darn sure of ourselves and our holy righteousness that we can’t see things the way other people do. We don’t give an inch, no matter how much Israel’s leaders screw things up to a fare the well. For this, we are paying dearly, and will pay much more in the future.
Obviously, I totally disagree with your perspective. Although Melanie Phillips is not your typical mainstream media journalist whose view skew to the left, she is nevertheless a highly respected journalist among her colleagues.
The JNS article that is the subject of this post was filled with fact that totally up end the narrative of the left and their mainstream media cheerleaders. Unless you can counter her points I don’t see how you can characterize her as catering to a small group of extremist right wingers. The facts she references speak for themselves.
True -- it is "entrenched". But perhaps confronting the Politicians (when they can not run away) might be a start.
Challenge them to a real debate -- not one where they can shout down the "opposition". Make sure that the debate is public so people can SEE the "stupidity" and "ignorance" of these people -- many of whom may have never been in Israel...
Your point may be correct but we are significantly beyond rational dialogue. It’s too late.
Saying that it is "too late" ALSO implies that there is NOTHING to be done... Should we all make Aliyah now?
The implication may or may not be correct. But I’m certainly not in any position to advise others on whether or not to make Aliyah now. Who am I to tell others what to do?
I think that based upon your observations and understanding or the situation, you could be very well "qualified". If there is nothing to be done (as you feel) AND the Leftist [antisemitic] Democrats are in a position (if they win) to gut the protections for Jews... then it means that the era of "Malchus Shel Chesed" is over... and THAT would imply -- "move now and avoid the rush"...
Everyone has valid points and I agree. However, on the left, the Muslim world and the crazy conservatives are not interested in the facts. We can talk facts all day long and I do not think the narrative will change. There is a climate of anti-israel and anti-Semitism running rampant in the world. It is just like Charlie Kirk. The conspiracy theories and the demonization of him are the same. None of it is based on fact, just hatred for a normal guy who was willing to engage people, married the pretty girl, and has kids.
Do not let facts get in the way of our "demented" narrative.
I agree that Israel has to put forward its best and go into the lions' den. I would hire the Fox News team to find and train articulate, pretty Fox News-type anchors; we could sprinkle in some good-looking men.
J. B Pritzker Yemachmo is a chamor, so we shouldn't be surprised that this self-hater would reject contributions from AIPAC. May Hashem drive this Rasha out of the Governor's office in the fall!
Some thoughts:
1.there is no turning back. The narrative has been established and is set in stone. The USA and the world is turning more increasingly anti Israel and subsequently more overtly Jew hating as each day passes.
Sadly many of our own people are turning against Israel as well on the left and the right. Truth has become irrelevant in regard to Israel in particular and to other societal issues as well. It is the nature of the times we are living in.
2.we’re supposed to love our fellow Jews as part of “one soul”,as we love ourselves. I’m truly uncertain how to do that with our brothers and sisters who have turned against Israel.
This problem is a dilemma both halachically and hashkafically.
3.throughout this ongoing war,i have not heard one person articulate a better way to have responded to the horrific attack of 10/7. Critics are aplenty while alternative solutions are nonexistent.
4.while Bibi is not to blame for hatred just waiting to emerge his style and substance in so many ways doesn’t help.
Israel needs new and creative leadership and a new voice. Both external and internal problems require desperate answers. Bibi has contributed for many years to our divisiveness.
5.we desperately need outspoken and capable rabbinic leadership on the level of Rav Lichtenstein z’l to provide moral guidance that is focused,compassionate and open to all our people.
Agree with all your points. But I’m not sure that Bibi’s style and substance have any objective relevance to this hatred. I just think he’s an easy target for the haters which are mostly on the left - ever since his rejection of Obama‘s nuclear deal with Iran. Which has Increased by his positive relationship with the president.
The president is a less intellectually capable person than Bibi and the nature of his extreme character flaws and his dialogue have not helped either,despite some good things he’s done for Israel. His lack of sophistication and “Prost” manner are not a good thing for the world,the USA or Israel.
Saying things like”Israel wouldn’t exist without me” is not only nutty but is a slap in the face for any of us who have emunah in Hashem.
Bibi is a smarter version of Trump who doesn’t ignite the Jew hatred but he throws wood on the fire through divisive actions-eg alignment with Ben Gvir and Smotrich and permitting extremist settlers to act out.
Agree with that too. But I wouldn’t say that he is aligned with Ben-Gvir. He just used him to assure he could create a coalition government. Bibi is not a RW extremist. Ben-Gvir is.
You are correct. Bibi is a political opportunist consequences notwithstanding.
A political opportunist who if he believes an action will help him but hurt Israel-he'd do it in a picosecond.