According to reports I saw, this occurred on a completely different street, not far from Bar Ilan where the "official" demonstration coordinated by police took place with no problems.
Looks like this was a breakaway group that that congregated around a bus on the basically empty street (with fires on the road and in trash bins). There are claims that they broke a window of the bus and pepper sprayed inside. The bus driver called the police but apparently got no response. Videos show him backing up but then suddenly zooming forward hitting the youth in front of him, turned a corner at high speed and hit more people. One witness said that they started counting down to zero and he sped forward when they reached zero.
It appears that he panicked. That doesn't justify his actions but explain why the police downgraded his charges from aggravated murder to manslaughter.
There needs to be soul searching in the Chareidi community about the anarchistic violence often accompanied with these demonstrations.
We have a death from a Haredi protest and a death at an anti-ICE protest. This is the nature of things, and mistakes will occur no matter the care we take. I may not agree with either protest, but they do have a right to protest. Within any movement, there will be extremists and people who make bad judgments. Leaders of both movements do not intend violence, but to make a point.
Part of the cost of free expression is a human toll, and we have to accept it and work to mitigate risks. Had Hamas protested the way either group protested, Israel would not have been in a war. That is the difference between responsible resistance and insanity.
Does anyone here know if this boy was part of the protest group or as others have said, he was just passing by this street on his way home from yeshiva?
I am not sure of this, but the story I heard was that the bus driver panicked and raced away, with some people hanging on to the bus.
They managed to jump off.
This boy, who thought that the streets were closed for the demonstration, was crossing a street to get home from Yeshiva, and the bus knocked him down and dragged him.
With ALL due respect to Rav Feldman SHLIT"A (who is a truly great Talmid Chacham), I find his actions UNFORGIVEABLE on many grounds:
1. HE LIVES IN THE DIASPORA. How the H*** does he have the gall (And that -- unfortunately -- is what it appears to be) to make ANY comment about the "Army Situation"? Exactly WHERE does he get his information from? Is he LIVING with those who have suffered casualties? Does he have ANY idea of their pain?
2. Does he "condemn" all the "Hesder Boys" for serving in the Army? Does he consider them as "rebelling against Poskei HaDor"?
3. Does he say ANYTHING about aiding the families of those who DO serve -- in many cases multiple "tours" because of the man-power issues?
4. Where is his voice in condemning the disruptive demonstrations -- which only serve to increase the hatred of those who hold such disruptions? Does he SUPPORT such actions? If not, why is the silence so "palpable"?
I am not sure that your characterization is accurate. I do not know that he is "anti-Zionist nor anti-Medina. I believe that it is more likely that his statements are based upon the "information" that he receives. The main issue (as I see it) is that he is in CH"UL. HE is not talking to anyone IN ISRAEL who can give accurate objective info.
I also think that he is a Talmid Chacham far exceeding your narrow characterization. One can respectfully put to him the questions that I provided and "engage" him rather than assuming that he is a "Satmar clone"...
I did not see his "retort" to R. Slifkin. However, I *did* see some of what R. Slifkin wrote where I felt that he (Slifkin) was grossly halachic inaccurate. So, I would not judge R. Feldman based on his response to R. Slifkin. I would also question the notion that he is "anti-Zionist". [Of course, I do not know exactly how you define "anti-Zionist".]
I still believe that much of his formulations are based upon inaccurate data -- complicated by his residence in "the Diaspora".
Don't judge the bus driver until you have been in his situation. Surrounded by a violent crowd with fires burning on the street and people throwing stones.
You really believe any new election will create some wonderful coalition?
Israel has proportional representation, which ends up in a mess. The US has first-past-the-post and gerrymandering, which leads to a mess. I doubt we can ever develop an election process that won't be gamed or result in some perceived unfairness.
According to reports I saw, this occurred on a completely different street, not far from Bar Ilan where the "official" demonstration coordinated by police took place with no problems.
Looks like this was a breakaway group that that congregated around a bus on the basically empty street (with fires on the road and in trash bins). There are claims that they broke a window of the bus and pepper sprayed inside. The bus driver called the police but apparently got no response. Videos show him backing up but then suddenly zooming forward hitting the youth in front of him, turned a corner at high speed and hit more people. One witness said that they started counting down to zero and he sped forward when they reached zero.
It appears that he panicked. That doesn't justify his actions but explain why the police downgraded his charges from aggravated murder to manslaughter.
There needs to be soul searching in the Chareidi community about the anarchistic violence often accompanied with these demonstrations.
We have a death from a Haredi protest and a death at an anti-ICE protest. This is the nature of things, and mistakes will occur no matter the care we take. I may not agree with either protest, but they do have a right to protest. Within any movement, there will be extremists and people who make bad judgments. Leaders of both movements do not intend violence, but to make a point.
Part of the cost of free expression is a human toll, and we have to accept it and work to mitigate risks. Had Hamas protested the way either group protested, Israel would not have been in a war. That is the difference between responsible resistance and insanity.
Does anyone here know if this boy was part of the protest group or as others have said, he was just passing by this street on his way home from yeshiva?
I am not sure of this, but the story I heard was that the bus driver panicked and raced away, with some people hanging on to the bus.
They managed to jump off.
This boy, who thought that the streets were closed for the demonstration, was crossing a street to get home from Yeshiva, and the bus knocked him down and dragged him.
With ALL due respect to Rav Feldman SHLIT"A (who is a truly great Talmid Chacham), I find his actions UNFORGIVEABLE on many grounds:
1. HE LIVES IN THE DIASPORA. How the H*** does he have the gall (And that -- unfortunately -- is what it appears to be) to make ANY comment about the "Army Situation"? Exactly WHERE does he get his information from? Is he LIVING with those who have suffered casualties? Does he have ANY idea of their pain?
2. Does he "condemn" all the "Hesder Boys" for serving in the Army? Does he consider them as "rebelling against Poskei HaDor"?
3. Does he say ANYTHING about aiding the families of those who DO serve -- in many cases multiple "tours" because of the man-power issues?
4. Where is his voice in condemning the disruptive demonstrations -- which only serve to increase the hatred of those who hold such disruptions? Does he SUPPORT such actions? If not, why is the silence so "palpable"?
I am not sure that your characterization is accurate. I do not know that he is "anti-Zionist nor anti-Medina. I believe that it is more likely that his statements are based upon the "information" that he receives. The main issue (as I see it) is that he is in CH"UL. HE is not talking to anyone IN ISRAEL who can give accurate objective info.
I also think that he is a Talmid Chacham far exceeding your narrow characterization. One can respectfully put to him the questions that I provided and "engage" him rather than assuming that he is a "Satmar clone"...
I did not see his "retort" to R. Slifkin. However, I *did* see some of what R. Slifkin wrote where I felt that he (Slifkin) was grossly halachic inaccurate. So, I would not judge R. Feldman based on his response to R. Slifkin. I would also question the notion that he is "anti-Zionist". [Of course, I do not know exactly how you define "anti-Zionist".]
I still believe that much of his formulations are based upon inaccurate data -- complicated by his residence in "the Diaspora".
Don't judge the bus driver until you have been in his situation. Surrounded by a violent crowd with fires burning on the street and people throwing stones.
Many Chareidim go to schools which bused students to the demonstrations during school hours.
You really believe any new election will create some wonderful coalition?
Israel has proportional representation, which ends up in a mess. The US has first-past-the-post and gerrymandering, which leads to a mess. I doubt we can ever develop an election process that won't be gamed or result in some perceived unfairness.